How Many Arm, Back, and Bicep Exercises Should You Do Per Workout? A Practical, Evidence-Informed Guide

Table of Contents

  1. Key Highlights
  2. Introduction
  3. Why the Back–Biceps Relationship Shapes Exercise Selection
  4. Defining Volume: Sets per Muscle per Week and How to Distribute Them
  5. How Many Exercises Per Session: Practical Guidelines by Experience Level
  6. Compound vs Isolation: How to Balance for Strength and Size
  7. Sample Workouts: Templates for Different Levels
  8. Sets, Reps, Intensity, and Tempo for Hypertrophy vs Strength
  9. Weekly Frequency: How Often to Hit Back and Biceps
  10. Monitoring Recovery and Avoiding Overtraining
  11. Exercise Selection: Matching Movements to Goals and Anatomy
  12. Warm-Ups, Mobility, and Injury Prevention
  13. Advanced Techniques and When to Use Them
  14. Periodization and Long-Term Planning
  15. Nutrition, Sleep, and Supplement Basics for Arm and Back Growth
  16. Common Mistakes and How to Fix Them
  17. How to Progress When Gains Stall
  18. Time-Efficient Strategies for Busy Schedules
  19. Special Populations: Training Around Injuries and Limitations
  20. Monitoring Progress: What to Track and When to Change Course
  21. Bringing It Together: A 12-Week Example Macrocycle
  22. FAQ

Key Highlights

  • Balance compound back movements (3–4 per session) with targeted biceps work (2–3 isolation exercises) to hit 10–20 weekly sets per muscle for hypertrophy while preventing overtraining.
  • Program by experience level: beginners need fewer exercises and lower weekly volume; intermediates and advanced lifters should increase variety, frequency, and progressive overload.
  • Recovery, exercise order, tempo, and weekly distribution drive results as much as exercise count; monitor performance, soreness, and strength progression to adjust volume.

Introduction

Sculpting stronger arms requires more than instinctive curl counts or copying gym partners. The arm muscles do not train in isolation; the back supplies the scaffold for pulling strength, and biceps are secondary movers in many compound lifts. Choosing the right number of exercises per workout matters because volume, intensity, exercise selection, and recovery together determine muscle growth and joint health.

This guide lays out a practical framework for deciding how many arm, back, and bicep exercises to include each session. It translates general principles into concrete plans for beginners, intermediates, and advanced trainees, provides sample workouts, explains set and rep schemes, and covers recovery and injury prevention. Adopt these principles, track your results, and refine the plan to fit your physiology and schedule.

Why the Back–Biceps Relationship Shapes Exercise Selection

The back and biceps share movement patterns. Many back-focused exercises—pull-ups, rows, lat pulldowns—place substantial demand on the elbow flexors. Treating these muscles as separate training islands leads to wasted effort or inadvertent overwork.

When programming, consider two layers:

  • Primary back work: movements aimed at the latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, and spinal erectors. These are mainly compound, heavy lifts.
  • Secondary biceps work: isolation or targeted curling variations intended to finish biceps after the back has already partially worked them.

A session heavy with compound back lifts reduces the need for extensive direct biceps volume that day. Conversely, a light back day leaves room for extra biceps work. Count compound lifts toward your biceps weekly volume rather than ignoring them.

Real-world example: an intermediate lifter performs three sets of heavy bent-over rows and three sets of weighted pull-ups in a back session. Those six sets already provide substantial stimulus for the biceps. Adding five direct curling exercises would likely produce excessive volume and compromise recovery.

Defining Volume: Sets per Muscle per Week and How to Distribute Them

Effective hypertrophy centers on weekly volume. The most practical metric for programming is sets per muscle per week.

  • Beginners: 6–12 effective sets per muscle per week produce rapid progress while teaching movement patterns.
  • Intermediates: 10–18 effective sets per muscle per week sustain continued growth.
  • Advanced lifters: 16–25+ sets per muscle per week may be needed to push limits, though returns diminish and recovery becomes limiting.

"Effective" sets are near enough to muscular fatigue to stimulate adaptation. Light, high-rep sets that stop far short of effort contribute less.

Translate these targets to sessions. For a twice-weekly back and biceps split:

  • Beginners: 3–6 sets per session per muscle.
  • Intermediates: 5–9 sets per session.
  • Advanced: 8–12 sets per session.

Those ranges include compound plus isolation work. Count compound rowing and pulling sets toward both back and biceps volumes.

How Many Exercises Per Session: Practical Guidelines by Experience Level

Choosing the number of distinct exercises matters less than total effective sets, but exercise selection affects movement variety, muscle activation angles, and joint health.

A practical rule:

  • Back exercises per session: 2–4 exercises (mostly compound; substitute one or two isolations like face pulls for scapular control).
  • Biceps exercises per session: 1–3 exercises (one heavy compound curl or barbell curl plus 0–2 variations targeting different heads/angles).
  • Triceps/forearm/arm accessory (if included): 0–2 exercises depending on goals and fatigue.

Breakdown by trainee level:

Beginner (0–2 years training)

  • Back exercises: 2 (e.g., pull-ups or lat pulldowns + supported row)
  • Biceps exercises: 1 (e.g., barbell or dumbbell curls)
  • Aim: 6–10 sets per muscle weekly. Keep workouts simple and frequent.

Intermediate (2–5 years)

  • Back exercises: 3 (vertical pull, horizontal pull, scapular/rotator cuff work)
  • Biceps exercises: 2 (heavy curls + supinated curl or hammer)
  • Aim: 10–18 sets per muscle weekly. Introduce intensity techniques selectively.

Advanced (5+ years)

  • Back exercises: 3–4 (vary grips, stances, and loading patterns)
  • Biceps exercises: 2–3 (heavy compound curl + two isolation variants)
  • Aim: 16–25 sets per muscle weekly. Manage fatigue with deloads and split distributions.

These numbers are flexible. If you prefer fewer exercises with more sets each, ensure each exercise is performed close to fatigue and complements the rest of the session.

Compound vs Isolation: How to Balance for Strength and Size

Compound lifts recruit multiple muscles and allow heavier loads. Isolation movements let you target weak links and muscle shapes more precisely.

Why prioritize compounds early in the session:

  • You can lift heavier with fresh CNS output, which promotes mechanical tension—a primary driver of hypertrophy and strength.
  • Compound lifts produce systemic fatigue; isolate after major lifts to avoid technique breakdown on compound lifts.

Order example for a back/biceps day:

  1. Compound vertical pull (pull-ups or lat pulldown) — 3–4 sets.
  2. Compound horizontal pull (barbell/dumbbell row or seated cable row) — 3–4 sets.
  3. Accessory scapular and posterior shoulder work (face pulls, rear delt flyes) — 2–3 sets.
  4. Direct biceps work (barbell or dumbbell curls) — 2–4 sets.
  5. Finishing biceps variation (hammer curls, cable curls, concentration curls) — 1–2 sets.

If training biceps primarily on an arm day, you might choose different distribution: heavy curls early and compound pulling later, depending on goals.

Real-world application: a competitive powerlifter prioritizing deadlift and squat places limited direct biceps volume because heavy pulls already tax the elbow flexors. A physique athlete chasing balanced arm proportions assigns more isolation curls across multiple weekly sessions.

Sample Workouts: Templates for Different Levels

Each sample below assumes a focus on back and biceps and a typical training frequency of twice per week for those muscle groups. Rest between sets: 1.5–3 minutes for heavy compound work; 60–90 seconds for isolation and accessory work.

Beginner Back & Biceps Session (twice weekly)

  • Warm-up: 5–10 minutes light cardio + dynamic shoulder mobility
  • Pull-ups (assisted if needed) or Lat pulldown — 3 sets x 6–10 reps
  • Seated cable row (neutral grip) — 3 sets x 8–12 reps
  • Face pulls — 2 sets x 12–15 reps
  • Barbell curls — 2 sets x 8–12 reps
  • Hammer curls — 1 set x 10–12 reps Weekly totals per muscle: Back 12 sets, Biceps ~6–8 effective sets

Intermediate Back & Biceps Session (twice weekly, alternating emphasis) Session A (vertical emphasis)

  • Pull-ups (weighted as needed) — 4 sets x 5–8 reps
  • One-arm dumbbell row — 3 sets x 8–10 reps
  • Face pulls — 3 sets x 12–15 reps
  • Barbell curls (strict) — 3 sets x 6–10 reps
  • Incline dumbbell curls — 2 sets x 10–12 reps

Session B (horizontal emphasis)

  • Barbell bent-over row — 4 sets x 6–8 reps
  • Seated cable row (wide grip) — 3 sets x 8–12 reps
  • Rear delt flyes — 2 sets x 10–15 reps
  • EZ-bar curls — 3 sets x 8–10 reps
  • Hammer curls — 2 sets x 10–12 reps Weekly totals per muscle: Back 14–18 sets, Biceps 12–14 sets

Advanced Back & Biceps Session (three times weekly or twice but higher density)

  • Heavy session: Weighted pull-ups — 4 sets x 3–6 reps; Bent-over barbell rows — 4 sets x 5–8 reps; Heavy barbell curls — 4 sets x 5–8 reps
  • Volume session: Lat pulldown (wide) — 4 sets x 8–12; Seated cable row — 4 sets x 8–12; Incline dumbbell curls — 3 sets x 8–12; Cable curls (high rep burnout) — 2 sets x 12–20
  • Technique/scapular health session: Meadows row or T-bar row variations — 3 sets x 6–10; Face pulls — 4 sets x 12–15; Concentration curls — 2 sets x 10–12 Weekly totals per muscle: Back 20+ sets, Biceps 16–22 sets

These templates assume a trainee will adjust loads to maintain proximity to muscular fatigue. Advanced athletes should periodize intensity to avoid burnout.

Sets, Reps, Intensity, and Tempo for Hypertrophy vs Strength

Set and rep schemes change the stimulus:

  • Hypertrophy sweet spot: 6–20 total reps per set with 3–4 sets per exercise often yields the right balance. Typical ranges: 6–12 reps per set for mechanical tension and metabolic stress.
  • Strength emphasis: 3–6 reps per set with heavier loads and longer rest.
  • Endurance and hypertrophy blend: 12–20+ reps, slower tempo for metabolic stress.

Tempo controls time under tension. Examples:

  • 2-1-2 tempo: 2 seconds eccentric, 1-second pause, 2 seconds concentric — balances control and power.
  • 3-0-1 tempo for curls emphasizes slow eccentrics; increases microtrauma and metabolic demand.
  • Fast eccentric with controlled concentric is less common for hypertrophy; controlled eccentrics yield better hypertrophic stimulus.

Intensity and progression

  • Aim to reach or approach technical failure on the last set of each exercise during hypertrophy phases.
  • Track loads and reps. Add 1–5% load increase when you hit the top of your rep range for all sets.
  • Use rep ranges rather than fixed numbers; if you perform 8–12 reps, increasing reps across sessions signals readiness to increase load.

Real-world coaching tip: If a client can perform the top range of reps across all sets for two consecutive sessions, increase weight by the smallest practical increment. For barbells, that might be 2.5–5 pounds per side; for machines, 5–10 pounds steps.

Weekly Frequency: How Often to Hit Back and Biceps

Frequency interacts with per-session volume. Splitting weekly volume across multiple sessions reduces per-session fatigue and improves recovery, permitting higher total weekly sets.

Frequency recommendations:

  • Beginners: Train each muscle group 2–3 times per week with low per-session volume.
  • Intermediates: 2–3 times per week remains effective; prioritize one high-intensity and one volume session.
  • Advanced: 2–4 times per week may be necessary, with careful load management and planned deload weeks.

Example split options:

  • Upper/lower split: Back and biceps twice weekly, spread across upper-body days.
  • Push/pull/legs: Back and biceps trained once weekly on pull day; consider repeating a light back movement mid-week if recovery allows.
  • Body-part split (bro split): Back and biceps once weekly but with high volume that challenges recovery; less efficient for hypertrophy than twice-weekly training for most.

Distributing volume improves movement quality and mastery. Two 8-set sessions per week of back work often outperform a single 16-set session because fatigue compromises form on later sets.

Monitoring Recovery and Avoiding Overtraining

Muscle growth requires recovery. Adjust exercise count and volume based on performance markers.

Key monitoring metrics:

  • Strength retention or progression on compound lifts.
  • Ability to complete prescribed sets with target rep ranges.
  • Persistent soreness beyond 72 hours that disrupts training performance.
  • Sleep quality and general energy levels.
  • Joint pain or unusual discomfort that does not resolve.

Actions for signs of excessive fatigue:

  • Reduce weekly sets by 10–30% for one week.
  • Replace heavy sessions with technique or mobility-focused sessions.
  • Implement a planned deload every 4–8 weeks, reducing volume to 40–60% for a week.

Case scenario: A lifter increases weekly back sets from 12 to 20 without adjusting recovery or sleep. After two weeks they notice decreased pull-up strength and persistent forearm soreness. The immediate remedy is to cut back volume by 25% and add an extra sleep hour plus two protein-rich meals. If symptoms persist, extend the deload.

Exercise Selection: Matching Movements to Goals and Anatomy

Choose exercises that match leverages, shoulder health, and available equipment. Variety prevents imbalanced development.

Back movement categories:

  • Vertical pulls: Pull-ups, chin-ups, lat pulldowns — emphasize lats and upper back height.
  • Horizontal pulls: Barbell rows, seated cable rows, single-arm rows — build thickness and mid-back.
  • Posterior delts and scapular control: Face pulls, rear-delt flyes, band pull-aparts — critical for shoulder durability.
  • Low-back and posterior chain support: Deadlifts, rack pulls, hyperextensions — not strictly "back day" but support structural strength.

Biceps movement categories:

  • Peak-focused curls: Concentration curls, preacher curls — isolate short head or long head emphasis depending on arm position.
  • Brachialis/forearm emphasis: Hammer curls, neutral-grip curls — create fuller-looking arms.
  • Multi-joint curls: EZ-bar and barbell curls — allow heavy loads and systemic demand.

Pair exercises to provide complementary stimulus. Example pairing: weighted pull-ups (vertical) followed by barbell rows (horizontal), then barbell curls and incline dumbbell curls for varied biceps angles.

Equipment limitations

  • When limited to dumbbells, increase rep ranges and use unilateral work to equalize imbalances.
  • With only cables or bands, manipulate tension curves and tempo to approximate heavy barbell loads.

Real-world adjustment: A gym client with sore wrists avoids straight-bar curls, choosing EZ-bar or dumbbell curls with neutral grip. Swapping tools preserves biceps stimulus without aggravating joint pain.

Warm-Ups, Mobility, and Injury Prevention

Warm muscle and activate scapular stabilizers to protect shoulders and elbows. Good warm-up sequence:

  1. General cardio 5 minutes to raise core temperature.
  2. Specific activation: band pull-aparts, scapular pull-ups, light face pulls (2 sets of 12–15).
  3. Movement practice: light warm-up sets for primary compound lifts, gradually increasing weight across 2–3 sets.

Elbow and tendon health

  • Avoid sudden jumps to high volume in heavy curling movements; tendons adapt slower than muscle.
  • Use eccentric control (3-second lowering) to build tendon resilience when ramping up.
  • If tendon pain develops, reduce load and volume, switch to neutral grips, and emphasize higher-rep, lower-load work while recovering.

Shoulder health

  • Face pulls and external rotation work maintain rotator cuff strength and posture.
  • Prioritize thoracic mobility to enable full scapular retraction on rows and pull-ups.

Real-world prevention: An athlete who developed chronic lateral elbow discomfort reduced weighted curls, added reverse and hammer curls with higher reps, and introduced weekly eccentric-only sessions. Pain subsided as tendon capacity increased.

Advanced Techniques and When to Use Them

Intensity techniques can break plateaus but must be used sparingly:

  • Drop sets: Useful for finishing a biceps exercise to increase metabolic stress.
  • Supersets (antagonist or agonist): Pair biceps with triceps for time efficiency or back with biceps for increased density.
  • Tempo manipulation: Use slow eccentrics for added tension when increasing load is unsafe due to equipment increments.
  • Rest-pause sets: Inserted occasionally to push a muscle beyond usual fatigue thresholds.

Reserve these techniques for phases in which recovery and nutrition support higher systemic stress. Cycle intensity techniques for 2–4 weeks, then return to base volume to allow CNS recovery.

Periodization and Long-Term Planning

Periodize training around phases:

  • Accumulation (4–8 weeks): Moderate-heavy volume, aim to increase weekly sets gradually.
  • Intensification (2–6 weeks): Reduce set count slightly, raise intensity and load for strength carryover.
  • Peaking or specialization (2–4 weeks): Focus density for lagging muscles, higher frequency with reduced total weekly load to avoid burnout.
  • Deload (1 week): 40–60% volume reduction and lower intensity.

Track progress in 4–12 week blocks. A physique-focused trainee might do two accumulation blocks with a specialization phase for biceps before a photoshoot. A strength athlete uses intensification leading to a meet or testing day.

Nutrition, Sleep, and Supplement Basics for Arm and Back Growth

Muscles cannot grow without substrate and recovery.

Protein and total calories

  • Aim for 1.6–2.2 g protein per kilogram of bodyweight daily to support hypertrophy.
  • Caloric surplus of 200–500 kcal daily promotes muscle growth; maintain a modest surplus to limit fat gain.
  • Distribute protein intake across meals to support protein synthesis throughout the day.

Timing and quality

  • Pre- and post-workout nutrition are useful for performance: 20–40 grams of protein combined with carbohydrates within 1–2 hours around training improves recovery and glycogen replenishment.
  • Micronutrients and hydration support training consistency.

Sleep and hormonal recovery

  • 7–9 hours of quality sleep facilitates hormonal milieu for repair. Sleep deprivation impairs strength and hypertrophic responses.

Supplements

  • Creatine monohydrate reliably improves strength and work capacity.
  • Protein powders are convenient for meeting daily protein targets.
  • Caffeine improves acute training performance for heavy compound lifts and high-intensity sets.

Real-world diet plan: A 190-pound trainee aiming for hypertrophy consumes 2200–2700 kcal depending on metabolism, targets 140–190 g protein, and schedules a 30–40 g protein meal within an hour post-training.

Common Mistakes and How to Fix Them

Mistake: Counting every movement as equally effective. Fix: Distinguish between warm-up sets, mobility work, and effective sets near fatigue. Only count the latter toward hypertrophy volume.

Mistake: Overloading isolation work after heavy compound sets. Fix: Assess how much the biceps have worked during compounds. Scale direct curls accordingly.

Mistake: Changing exercises too often or never. Fix: Use stability in major lifts for 6–12 weeks to track progress; rotate accessory exercises every 4–8 weeks.

Mistake: Ignoring scapular control. Fix: Add face pulls and band pull-aparts. Improve posture and shoulder durability to lift heavier with better mechanics.

Mistake: Chasing numbers rather than quality. Fix: Prioritize tempo, full range of motion, and controlled repetitions; add load only when quality persists.

How to Progress When Gains Stall

Plateaus are normal. Approach them with systematic adjustments:

  • Increase weekly volume by 10–20% if recovery allows.
  • Add one heavy set to compound lifts or an extra isolation set for the lagging muscle.
  • Modify frequency: split back work into three shorter sessions rather than two long ones.
  • Change exercise selection to emphasize weak points — e.g., single-arm rows if left-side lag persists.
  • Use short mesocycles of intensity techniques (drop sets, rest-pause) for 2–4 weeks, then return to base training.

Document changes in a training log. Small, consistent adjustments compound into meaningful progress.

Time-Efficient Strategies for Busy Schedules

When time is constrained, focus on high-return exercises and density:

  • Prioritize one heavy compound vertical pull and one heavy horizontal pull per session.
  • Use supersets to reduce gym time while maintaining volume (e.g., superset rows with curls).
  • Choose cable or machine variants that shorten setup time and allow quick transitions.

Example 35-minute back/biceps session:

  • Warm-up: 5 minutes
  • Superset 1: Lat pulldown 4 sets x 8–10 + Bent-over dumbbell row 4 sets x 8–10 (rest 90 seconds between supersets)
  • Superset 2: Cable face pulls 3 sets x 12–15 + EZ-bar curls 3 sets x 8–10 Finish with a quick 60-second biceps burnout set if time remains.

Special Populations: Training Around Injuries and Limitations

Elbow tendonitis or shoulder pain requires adjustments:

  • Reduce load and increase repetition tempo for tendon adaptation.
  • Use neutral grips and hammer variations to offload painful points.
  • Emphasize shoulder blade retraction and external rotation work to stabilize the shoulder.

Older trainees

  • Lower absolute volume and emphasize recovery.
  • Increase frequency with lower per-session volume for neuromuscular maintenance.
  • Prioritize joint-friendly exercises and mobility work.

Rehabilitation example: A client with mild rotator cuff irritation substituted pull-ups with neutral-grip dumbbell rows and emphasized face pulls and external rotations while progressively reintroducing vertical pulls as pain decreased.

Monitoring Progress: What to Track and When to Change Course

Track these variables:

  • Weekly training volume per muscle (effective sets).
  • Load and rep performance on main lifts.
  • Soreness timeline and joint comfort.
  • Body composition and tape measurements for physique goals.

Adjust when:

  • Strength stalls for 3–6 weeks without other life stressors.
  • Persistent soreness or declining performance indicates too much volume.
  • Visible or measured body composition goals require a change in caloric balance.

Weekly check-ins and monthly reviews provide data to modify programming rationally.

Bringing It Together: A 12-Week Example Macrocycle

Phase 1 (Weeks 1–4): Accumulation

  • Back and biceps twice weekly, moderate load, increasing weekly sets by 10% each week.
  • Weekly back sets: start at 12, progress to 15. Biceps: 8→10.

Phase 2 (Weeks 5–8): Intensification

  • Slight reduction in weekly sets (10–15% lower than end of Phase 1), increased intensity and fewer reps on main compounds.
  • Add a heavy curl progression once per week.

Phase 3 (Weeks 9–10): Specialization

  • Increase biceps isolation frequency, split total weekly sets across three short sessions; reduce total back load slightly to prioritize arm shape.
  • Use drop sets and controlled eccentrics for last set of curls.

Phase 4 (Week 11): Assessment and Peak

  • Test 1RM or perform top-end rep testing for pull-ups/rows and curls. Evaluate gains.

Phase 5 (Week 12): Deload

  • Cut volume to 40–60% and reduce intensity. Focus on mobility and technique.

This structure balances progressive overload with recovery, enabling sustained gains and adaptation.

FAQ

Q: How many total sets should I do for biceps in a single workout? A: Count both compound and isolation sets. For hypertrophy, aim for 6–12 effective biceps sets per workout if training the muscle twice weekly (meaning 12–18 sets per week). Beginners should start at the lower end; advanced lifters at the higher end.

Q: Should I train biceps on the same day as back or on a separate "arm day"? A: Either approach works. Training biceps with back is efficient because compounds overlap. Separate arm days allow you to prioritize arm hypertrophy with fresh energy. Choose based on recovery capacity and weekly schedule.

Q: Are pull-ups enough for biceps growth? A: Pull-ups strongly stimulate biceps but may not provide optimal isolation for peak or targeted development. Add 1–2 curling variations across the week to ensure full biceps stimulus and shape.

Q: How many exercises are too many? A: If you perform more than 5–6 distinct back and biceps exercises in a single session, risk of diminishing returns and recovery problems rises. Focus on 2–4 back exercises and 1–3 biceps exercises per session while keeping total effective sets within your weekly target.

Q: How should I adjust volume when life stress or poor sleep occurs? A: Reduce volume by 10–30% for 1–2 sessions, prioritize compound lifts with lower volume, and plan a deload if stress persists. Quality sleep and nutrition are non-negotiable for recovery.

Q: When should I use intensity techniques like drop sets? A: After establishing a solid baseline and only for short mesocycles (2–4 weeks) to overcome plateaus. These techniques increase systemic fatigue; schedule them when life stress is low and nutrition supports recovery.

Q: How long until I see results with a new back/biceps program? A: Beginners often notice strength and composition changes within 4–8 weeks. Intermediates and advanced trainees require more precise programming and patience; visible changes may take 8–16 weeks depending on volume, nutrition, and recovery.

Q: Is frequency more important than total sets? A: Both matter. Distributing total weekly sets over multiple sessions often produces better results than cramming all sets into one session because performance per set remains higher across sessions.

Q: Should I prioritize range of motion or heavier weights? A: Prioritize full, controlled range of motion with weights that challenge you through that range. If you sacrifice range for weight, reduce load. Mechanical tension through full movement is a major driver of hypertrophy.

Q: How do I know when to increase weight vs. increase sets? A: Increase weight when you can complete the top of your prescribed rep range for all sets in two consecutive sessions. Increase sets if progress stalls but recovery is good; add one effective set per week and monitor.

Adopt these principles, commit to methodical progression, and adjust based on measured response. The right combination of exercise selection, volume, frequency, and recovery yields stronger, more muscular arms over time.

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